Yadda said: "..this horrible suffering is only temporary to answer a bigger long-term issue, a bit like an infant needing an operation going into hospital to suffer short-term pain for a long-term solution."
There are several problems with that illustration, as I see it.
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1) God is the one who inflicted the life threatening ailment that requires an operation.
(He supposedly decided what sin would be defined as, then once Adam 'sinned', He cursed all of Adams descendants to sin, grow old and die.)
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2) He is not a helpless parent with a dying child who has no choice but to go through with the operation..
He is more like an egocentric specialist doctor overseeing the work and watching his own child suffer.. And He could cure the infant at any time, WITHOUT the need for a long and painful operation, and yet CHOOSES NOT TO, in order to show that people cannot live happily and eternally in an ailment free world where nobody can be harmed- (which is meant to be the successful outcome of the operation in this illustration) - without completely submitting to Him and obeying His every word..
Which has ALREADY been proven, seeing as He is the only person that has the skill to bring about the successful outcome of this cruel 'operation', anyway. All the patients and their parents KNOW that THEY can't achieve this, as it is physically impossible, and beg that He would just cure them, without all of the suffering and dying.
But He just decides to keep putting a countless number of infants through the painful operation anyway, in an endless stream of crying, pain and finally death..
Apparently because He is patient, and waiting for the miniscule percentage that might live through this agonising operation and come out successfully. (an operation, remember, that He invented after first inventing and inflicting the ailment).
In summary, He could cure His child and skip the operation, but He chooses not to.. to prove that nobody else can.
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3) There are countless infants who will go through the terrible and painful operation, only to be actually murdered by God, at a completely unknown time (Armageddon), just because their parents happen to be alive at the time, and disagree with His neglectful parentage, or are speaking out against the cruel 'operations' on infants that He decided were necessary, or they simply had the private opinion that He was not actually a loving person, or even someone they could have empathy for, but rather an egocentric murderer.
Ironically, after He kills the children, and their parents who thought of Him in this way (at Armageddon), they would have been proven to be correct. Not much comfort, though.
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4) If there was an issue with a fellow doctor (Satan); who challenged that no parent or their child would go through a horrific and painful operation, that was unnecessary except for the purposes of the challenge, whilst doing whatever He (God) said.. along with holding Him in high regard, thinking of Him as fair and just, and even loving Him, whilst experiencing pain and suffering caused by the ailment He gave them and the operation He put them through..
Why did He not simply kill, render speechless or even just ignore the other doctor (Satan) who challenged Him?
Let me guess, because it wouldn't prove the other doctor wrong?
If some sadistic man said to you, 'Hey, I bet that.. if you were to give me your children, each one for an undefined time, maybe just for a day or maybe for over a hundred years..
I want to emotionally and physically torture them, cause them to suffer infinite types of agony whilst they call to you for help, and you would have to ignore their tears and pleas for rescue.. whilst you stand there and watch it all happen.. I bet they wouldn't still love you, think you are the best and most loving parent possible, and do anything you say throughout that time. Don't worry though, you can have them back and bring them to life, even give them eternal life when I'm through with them.. just as long as they are one of the few that will pass the test, or you'll have to leave them dead for giving up on you and being disloyal'.
..What would you do? Especially bearing in mind that this guy (Satan) had already tried to get your kids to do something that would get them killed, right in front of you (think 'story of the forbidden fruit', they were told they would die and Satan knew that, so he effectively tried to get them killed, bear with me here).
Even if he wouldn't shut up, would you feel that you HAD TO prove the guy wrong? Or would you: restrain him in some way/ignore him/render him unconscious/kill him? Surely you'd do anything but accept the challenge..
Would your sense of 'fairness' and 'justice' cause you to feel that you had NO CHOICE except to settle the issue with that sadistic man once and for all?
defender of truth
JoinedPosts by defender of truth
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14
Sam Harris on Christian Morality
by cofty inthe following video sums up why i not only reject theism but oppose it.... if you worship a god who hears your prayers please invest 6 minutes to listen and ask yourself how you would respond.
then ask yourself whether your answer requires the same special pleading and double-think we used to indulge in to defend our jw beliefs.....
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defender of truth
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74
They continue to drop like flies
by suavojr inyes, the jws continue to bleed their young ones, so far in my local kh 3 were dfd, one girl just turned 18 this month and packed her bags and said goodbye to the cult and her cultish parents, another young 18 year old man decided to have a non-jw girlfriend and decided to stop attending and is no longer a witness.
they continue to leave and wt leaders dont give a damn.
they dont do anything to help kids be successful and live a healthy life.. .
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defender of truth
"Hey I'm mentally diseased so you'll want to stay away from me."
You're not mentally diseased, you're just too lazy to take a quick peek at someone's posting history before deciding they're a Watchtower apologist..
Oh, and my name's defender of truth, not 'the Truth'. ;) -
74
They continue to drop like flies
by suavojr inyes, the jws continue to bleed their young ones, so far in my local kh 3 were dfd, one girl just turned 18 this month and packed her bags and said goodbye to the cult and her cultish parents, another young 18 year old man decided to have a non-jw girlfriend and decided to stop attending and is no longer a witness.
they continue to leave and wt leaders dont give a damn.
they dont do anything to help kids be successful and live a healthy life.. .
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defender of truth
Villagegirl said:"Holy cow, you are a flaming racist, defenderofnothing."
Where is your proof of that? Oh, because of what you quoted me saying there? Well, here's the context..
Rjharris said: " the 'Brother' who snitched and turned me in was a 'Black man.' This shows the power and influence the White power structure the organization has over its membership."
I wasn't questioning whether there is a racist element to the organisation, or whether white people rule the GB by majority, which I gather you are assuming because of the following comment you made: "Its a white old mens club"... It probably is
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If you think about it, rj seemed to be asserting that because a black man informed the elders that he was telling people, potential converts (Bible studies), that the Watchtower doesn't speak truth in its illustrations and likely putting some off joining, that this 'shows' that the white power structure has strong influence or control over it's membership. Again, maybe it IS an example of black people being brainwashed into accepting Jesus portrayed as white, when apparently they should all have an issue with that. Maybe this is just an issue that I've never considered before. I've had several good friends that are black, and none of them have ever mentioned to me that a white depiction of Jesus bothered them.. Who knows, I'm not a mind reader.Try to bear in mind, I am a white man brought up in the 'Truth'. I have never even had a conversation about 'black' or 'white' culture or thinking.
I have, though, been deeply angered by stories of racist segregation at assemblies, some being told in the past that 'your people sit over there'!!
Sorry for the off-topic post, but I had to reply to this Villagegirl said: "Jesus was a Semitic Jew, with a black grandmother in his ancestry. He was not a blue eyed Nordic white man. you idiot."
A) Which Jesus do you mean? The fantasy figure built up by Christianity, or the historical, 'real' Jesus that probably existed? Assuming that you mean the latter, yes he likely was dark-skinned. Where did I claim otherwise?
B) Are you capable of having a rational conversation with someone who sees things differently, without calling them idiots and racists for questioning certain statements that seem strange to them?
C) I do apologise for any offence caused. I am the sort who questions everything, it pi**es a lot of people off in real life, I'll try to refrain in future, and just listen
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And someone on the previous page said: "Statistics-evidence! Gosh can't we just let our friend say what's on his mind."
Of course. I'm sorry if it sounded like I was trying to censor him in any way. I genuinely WOULD love to see anything to back up this claim: "The organization.. is losing people of color and in particular it's youth and more specifically its Black youth."
To claim that the org is specifically losing black youths because of the way it's ran and the literature seems a strong statement to make if it's only based on his congregation, or maybe that's just me. It'd be the kind of info that deserves an article or something. -
74
They continue to drop like flies
by suavojr inyes, the jws continue to bleed their young ones, so far in my local kh 3 were dfd, one girl just turned 18 this month and packed her bags and said goodbye to the cult and her cultish parents, another young 18 year old man decided to have a non-jw girlfriend and decided to stop attending and is no longer a witness.
they continue to leave and wt leaders dont give a damn.
they dont do anything to help kids be successful and live a healthy life.. .
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defender of truth
(Post 364 has nothing to do with you, Data-Dog, we're talking about rjharris)
Listen.. You said: "I would like to smash Stephen Letts head with a baseball bat.... was that outloud?!?!"
I thought that was an off-topic thing to say, I did not understand why you said it on this thread. So I asked you why you said it.
I'm sorry, I will just ignore posts that I do not understand in the future. Ok? -
74
They continue to drop like flies
by suavojr inyes, the jws continue to bleed their young ones, so far in my local kh 3 were dfd, one girl just turned 18 this month and packed her bags and said goodbye to the cult and her cultish parents, another young 18 year old man decided to have a non-jw girlfriend and decided to stop attending and is no longer a witness.
they continue to leave and wt leaders dont give a damn.
they dont do anything to help kids be successful and live a healthy life.. .
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defender of truth
Thanks, that is interesting.
I'm not attacking him, I just feel strongly about racism. I don't even think about someone's skin colour, so reading a post that seems to be going on about the difference in 'Black' people and 'White' people's thinking, I get kind of defensive. -
74
They continue to drop like flies
by suavojr inyes, the jws continue to bleed their young ones, so far in my local kh 3 were dfd, one girl just turned 18 this month and packed her bags and said goodbye to the cult and her cultish parents, another young 18 year old man decided to have a non-jw girlfriend and decided to stop attending and is no longer a witness.
they continue to leave and wt leaders dont give a damn.
they dont do anything to help kids be successful and live a healthy life.. .
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defender of truth
DATA-DOG posted 18 mins ago(7/15/2014)
Post 5547 of 5552
Joined 6/21/2012
"I would like to smash Stephen Letts head with a baseball bat.... was that outloud?!?!
DD"
Last time I'm repeating this, I'm sorry I asked.. Why did you post the above comment on this thread? -
74
They continue to drop like flies
by suavojr inyes, the jws continue to bleed their young ones, so far in my local kh 3 were dfd, one girl just turned 18 this month and packed her bags and said goodbye to the cult and her cultish parents, another young 18 year old man decided to have a non-jw girlfriend and decided to stop attending and is no longer a witness.
they continue to leave and wt leaders dont give a damn.
they dont do anything to help kids be successful and live a healthy life.. .
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defender of truth
"I would like to smash Stephen Letts head with a baseball bat...."
You just said that, directly above my post. How does that relate to the topic? -
74
They continue to drop like flies
by suavojr inyes, the jws continue to bleed their young ones, so far in my local kh 3 were dfd, one girl just turned 18 this month and packed her bags and said goodbye to the cult and her cultish parents, another young 18 year old man decided to have a non-jw girlfriend and decided to stop attending and is no longer a witness.
they continue to leave and wt leaders dont give a damn.
they dont do anything to help kids be successful and live a healthy life.. .
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defender of truth
What has that got to do with this thread?
^ Rjharris, question for you at the top of the page (in case it gets lost in a flood of derailing posts). -
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2014 God's Kingdom Rules PDF!
by Atlantis in2014 god's kingdom rules pdf!
we would like to thank cedars who contacted a friend who sent us the book to scan.
the sender was promised that the book would be rerurned to them unharmed.
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defender of truth
Bttt for anyone who missed this
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Listening to crisis of conscience as a audio book
by foreverme inhas really made me wonder how i ever got involved with the watchtower.
it basically comes down to me just wanting to believe this delusional belief system.
millions of people wasting their lives in this way is incredible.
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defender of truth
Bttt for those wanting to listen to CoC